[UPDATE]
This post triggered an incredible discussion – in fact it’s the first reasonable debate I’ve seen on this subject! You’ll find the comment thread summarised in the next blog post: Flash and HTML – the aftermath’s aftermath
I thought everyone was over the whole Flash vs HTML5 debate, but I was wrong. Instead of accepting new developments and making changes accordingly, a state of inactivity and comfortable denial has set in. Just one tweet is enough to release the torrent of emotions that have been bubbling under the surface for months. Who knew!?
Twitter riot incited : ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED
I was at the New Adventures in Web Design on Thursday, an excellent new conference featuring web stars like Elliot Jay Stocks and Dan Rubin. But I was distracted during one of the sessions by a twit-storm that I inadvertently kicked up by tweeting :
Looking back I can see why that caused trouble: the wording is incendiary and a little unclear. It suggests that I think Flash is unacceptable, but read it carefully: I’m merely reporting that the wider web world considers Flash to be unwelcome.
The tweet was in response to Tim Van Damme, who showed a pretentious and unusable Flash site as justification for his statement :
“Whatever you do, don’t use flipping Flash!”*
*words may have been replaced to avoid undue offense 
To be fair, Tim is known for his outspoken nature, but still, this is a leading web designer recommending best practice for web professionals at an industry conference. Telling his audience in no uncertain terms that Flash must not be used. The audience laughed, and I interpreted that laugh as : Yay for Flash bashing!
This doesn’t seem to be an isolated occurrence. At these events, I’ll introduce myself as someone best known for Flash, and more often than not get a humorous but derogatory response. At the conference after-party someone amusingly put his fingers in a cross-shape to ward off evil! At the speaker dinner at FullFrontal (Remy‘s excellent JS conference), the first person I met responded with a simple “Flash is dead”.
Flash is dead?
Anyone a little more pragmatic will realise that Flash isn’t dead: it still has excellent and justifiable uses such as casual games and kids’ websites. But we humans like to have distinct winners and losers, success or failure, love or hate. Reality is much greyer and more complex than that.
Taking this natural tendency towards polarisation into account, maybe we can start to understand why web developers mostly hate Flash? Imagine your only experience of Flash was banners, bad restaurant sites with obtrusive music and animation, unusable Flash forms, and when your fan comes on while watching youtube. If you’d only experienced the worst of Flash, wouldn’t you hate it?
“I [nothing] Flash”
I predict a softening of hatred towards Flash, but that’s not necessarily a good thing. As web developers find native browser alternatives, Flash will register less and less on their radar. Only two years ago if you wanted a photo slide show or simple animation you’d use Flash, no question. Now it’s a generally accepted best practice to use JavaScript or CSS3. So rather than a continued hatred, an ambivalence will set in. They’ll forget about it and move on. After all, if you are no longer confronted with something you hate, your feelings will dissipate.
The great Flash squeeze
Previously ubiquitous uses of Flash are disappearing: it’s getting squeezed. But it’s getting squeezed into the things it’s genuinely good at. It’s becoming niche. To quote Brendan Dawes, there’s nothing wrong with niche. We can do a lot with that.
Learn JavaScript
So what should we make of this? It’s pretty straightforward as far as I’m concerned. If you’re a programmer interested in creating online content, learn JavaScript. What harm could it do?
If you can prove your JavaScript skills and demonstrate that you understand its strengths and weaknesses, your colleagues will be more likely to listen to you when a particular task is genuinely better suited to Flash.
Joy of GFX
If your specialism is gaming or rich online experiences, then your Flash skills will continue to be relevant. But also there are many new opportunities for people who have visual programming skills – that’s us! We have a huge-head start over the JS experts who are only just starting to discover the joy of graphical programming.
Just as we have a lot to offer newcomers to visual programming, the wider web community have a lot to teach us; quality user-experience, information design, web typography, and so much more even before we get to the finer points such as JavaScript optimisation and coding standards.
With greater knowledge comes greater understanding, so that’s why I’m straddling both JavaScript and Flash worlds. Thankfully both seem to like me, but I can aggravate both equally when presenting the alternatives. In other words, I don’t quite fit in, but in a good way. 
Step out of your comfort zone
It seems like the wider web development community is getting more like the Flash community. They’re experimenting, playing, and more importantly, they’re enthusiastically sharing what they’ve learned. Just like we did. We’re not so different after all.
So step out of your comfort zone. You’ll find your so-called enemy can teach you a lot.
I examined this and other related subjects in great detail in my “What the Flux!?” presentation, so check that out for a fuller exploration (I’ll let you know when the video goes live).
[UPDATE]
I’ve really enjoyed the lengthy discussions about this here, so thank you all for contributing! One or two things I’d like to clarify:
Firstly this post focusses on the point of view from the rest of the web development community. This is because I assume the bulk of my blog readers are Flash oriented. If I’m not presenting counter arguments defending Flash it’s because I assume you know them all already.
Secondly I’m not saying that you should leave Flash for JS. I’m suggesting that you could expand your horizons into it. Keep doing Flash and learn JavaScript as well. And this advice is primarily to anyone who is producing online content.
And you can ignore it if you like
Thanks again for the ongoing very reasonable discussion – it’s very enjoyable!
[UPDATE 2]
The comments are coming in thick and fast. Thank you so much for the very reasoned discussion! I’m really pleased that this blog can be a platform for sensible conversation on this subject. I’m turning comments off while I read them all and respond. I’ll be posting a separate summary later.
[UPDATE 3]
TL;DR? I summarised all the comments in a separate post : Flash and HTML – the aftermath’s aftermath
Are you also straddling the divide between Flash and HTML? Are you a Flasher who is enjoying looking at new options? Are you a JavaScripter who can accept the benefits of Flash? Leave a comment below, I’d love to hear how you’re getting along.
Related posts:
How much time it will take to develop a system like Morgan Stanley Matrix in JS?
Hi Debabrata, JS capabilities are at least close to achieving most of what the Morgan Stanley Matrix accomplishes. But I would say that this is a classic example of style over content. I would be frustrated if I wanted to find out what Morgan Stanley was all about and was instead confronted with this “entertainment experience”. I want to be informed. I would be equally critical if this site were done in JS. Cheers Seb.
This is an excellent article, and one that seems to resonate with me as it conveys precisely my feelings about the HTML5 vs Flash debate.
I was also at the New Adventures conference and received exactly the same indifference when chatting to people and mentioning that I was, and still am involved with and associated with Flash development, including a jovial @maxvoltar who gave me a bit of friendly banter.
Interestingly though, once I started to convey the direct parallels with JS and graphics programming overall, and explaining that I was enthusiastically supporting and advising my clients to use the right tool for the job, most of the web developers I spoke to were really receptive to this reasoning and tended to be fairly surprised to see a flash developer with a more rounded view of things.
This got me wondering if actually flash developers in general give out a vibe of being hermetically detached from the technologies that our peers in the wider web community are using.
It seems clear to me that in order to keep up the momentum with the amazing pace of advancement on the web we have maintained over the years, we all need to put down our weapons and learn to love one another, embracing the lessons we can learn from one another.
We all want the web to be the best place possible, and I would love to see more Flash developers like Seb and I attending events like New Adventures to talk to the wider web community about how the skills of “both sides” are all transferable. If we become one side, one community I think we will see some really rapid advancements in the non flash graphics programming on the web, which I for one would be delighted to see.
Maybe we could get to this point more quickly if the flash community started embedding themselves in the wider web more fervently, and doing more to convey the fact that we are indeed “graphics programmers” and not just “flash developers”?
Hi Ringo, excellent comment there, yes I’d love to see more Flash programmers at web design conferences. Seb
Just compare
http://www.senocular.com/flash/tutorials/versions/
http://caniuse.com/
haha yes of course there are challenges with in browser coding, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t worth trying.
I was a full time Flash Developer for 8 years until mid-year 2010. Then Steve Jobs changed that. He unleashed a rather impressive campaign against Flash and won.
I quickly responded by learning Javascript / jQuery / CSS / html / mobile dev. It was an easy transition coming from AS1 / AS2 / AS3. It really only took a couple of months to get up to speed.
Now I’m excelling as a full-time front end developer and part-time Flash developer.
Do I care that I’m not working in AS3 as much as I’d like? Yes, a little. But now I find that I can a lot of “Flash” things with CSS, Javascript and Typekit (font embedding was a HUGE plus for Flash). So I’m still having a good time in my career – I still get to explore and try new things. I still get to make things look pretty.
For the record, ex-Flash developers make MEAN html developers. I encourage you all to jump in the arena and give the regular html guys a run for their money.
Love this quote, thanks Craig.
Flash isn’t perfect but it was an escape from the fragmentation of browser capabilities years ago. Now the same thing is happening again. It’s very difficult to get people to upgrade their browsers. We’ll be stuck with various implementations of HTML5 for years. With Flash you can keep your browser and update Flash capabilities easily.
Hi Jay, excellent point! We have to accept that we’re not necessarily experts at these cross browser issues, and web devs have solved most of these problems to a greater or lesser extent. I’m certainly seeing far fewer problems than I used to back in the early 00s. cheers Seb
There is no doubt that flash has helped. Love it or hate it the web would be a very diffent place without it, everything we do evolves through exploration and competition.
The web as we know it living in it’s small confines of a web browser on your computer is dying, the evolution of delivering digital content through a plethora of devices is the new generation. There are many technologies jockeying for a piece of this new world and flash is right in there making it all very interesting, with tablet devices mobile phones Internet tv’s as just the start, flash is dead long live flash.
One other point I would like to make is nothing ever dies on the web and also most of the general public are way behind us industry pros and our bubble of cutting edge tech, something worth remembering.
For the record, ex-Flash developers make mean developers. As others have mentioned, the advantages of starting out as a Flash developer is that you work with so many different aspects of programming.
I do wish the language and compiler was a little more like haXe though. Think I’ll be heading in that direction next!
Advocating for the use of Javascript in the name of progress or whatever in the year 2011 is not cool. I’d call that programmer-abuse.
Hi script kitty, I find it amusing that you find the idea of learning JavaScript so horrific that you’re equating it with abuse. You must have led a very comfortable life so far! Seriously though, it’s just a suggestion. Ignore it if you like.
cheers Seb
Turn off Javascript and browse the web, turn off Flash and browse the web. Then come back and re-read your own statements, people.
“Usability” should be your first imperative? If a visually impaired person can ‘experience’ your website (we used to say ‘read your website’, remember?), then you can build upon that your fancy plugin-only elements.
But most people know only “one” – blame it on the customer – thing and steal the rest. Especially Javascript is beyond the grasp of many web developers, because it is so powerful and a great security risk.
HTML5 “or” Flash is not the issue.
And Steve Jobs is not the web.
- End of Message -
Hi Alex, I have to admit, I’m not entirely sure what your point is here. Sorry! Seb
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I am more pessimistic unfortunately – I think it is a matter of time before Javascript can do most of what Flash can do, and Flash’s niche area just gets narrower and less relevant. But perhaps we need to differentiate what we consider the Flash Player, the Flash DisplayList API, and the Flash IDE. The latter 2 things I believe will eventually be port to Javascript, and the browsers will do all the engine work, since Flash Player and anything that ends in .swf is evil. But if it ends in .js or is rendered by the browser is suddenly acceptable.
A bit of a tl;dr on the comments here, though I picked up most of it. TBH this all feels like more of the same argument that’s been going around for almost a decade now. The only difference at this point in time is that legitimately those who don’t/can’t use Flash are finally able to justify their claim that “you don’t need Flash” in many circumstances.
I’m a Flash developer, but I also code JS/HTML sites with CSS3/HTML5 style interaction/animation, and I am frequently needing to back it all up with a decent amount of PHP+MySQL stuff. I totally agree with Seb that if you can, broaden. The languages really aren’t all that far apart, it makes no sense as a professional to not branch out and pick up these simple languages as additional strings to your bow, let alone more complicated languages like C++ that we all know in our heart of hearts isn’t an insurmountable leap from Actionscript 3 either
But while I agree that Flash is slowing down it’s pace, in terms of what it’s used for, I don’t agree that the volume nor type of work is really decreasing. I’m primarily an agency worker, and margins are king. The single executable view is something that is hard to argue with for speed and ubiquity, especially for sites that don’t need (or care) about pretty and comparable mobile versions. I will still be asked to build flash micro-sites for clients because coding the interactions required for transitions and animation is simply quicker and more true to the original creative intention than getting it to work in HTML/CSS across all browsers from IE6 all the way up to Chrome.
And when taking in to account the actual business side of what we do, cost and profit is arguably more important than principles.
I guess I feel “the wider web community” believes what it wants. Just like hardcore nerds will always say that Windows 7 is awful compared to their beloved Ubuntu (I have no opinions, not getting in to that fight), the reality is that Windows 7 isn’t a shower as it’s portrayed by those that value open-source, cheap to free, unrestricted technology. I personally feel a lot of Flash hatred comes from people that have talked very little to Flash developers other than in direct confrontation, have witnessed poor Flash, and baulked at the cost of the tools needed and pigeonholed it as “needless” or “pretentious” because of that.
It seems natural in the technological world that as soon as a price is introduced on a product, especially a high one, a whole section of our community gets more than just annoyed and instead becomes almost evangelical against what they see as an affront to their ability to grow and expand their toolset.
Ultimately, while the “wide flash hating web community” is hating on those like me that use Flash, I’m using it to do things that simply aren’t available to them yet and, in the process, impressing my clients that little bit more. I think we can take the blind abuse while our advantage, still, is that increased scope for creativity.
Hi Lee! Glad to see you’re embracing the different options, and it’s very interesting to see that you’re not seeing any drop off in the demand for Flash. Thanks for sharing. Seb
most of flash haters has not made a deep dive into language and what it offers. You can write slow javascript and you can write slow actionscript it does not matter what language you choose. If using right, then actionscript provides better visual look/performance pay ratio. The future of flash is not nearly over. Technologies are developing in high speed. What is good and required today does not mean it will be good and required after 1 year. Imagine new technology, requirement or trend shows up. It will take awhile while new specification is made, and then implemented through out all browsers. But with flash it is easy. New feature or requirement shows up, it is added to the new player and everybody can enjoy it real quicker. New html5 feature will be implemented dozens of times, because each browser has to implement it. With flash it is implemented only once, thus again – it develops and evaluates faster. Flash is changing and upgrading all the time. Don’t think of it as an old technology.
What I find amazing is that we’re having this argument at all.
Right now is the most exciting period in this new medium since the very start – a wealth of new platforms and opportunities, the lessons of past bad practice learnt, accessible, useable technologies and tools that are actually fun to use, browser standards that actually enable creativity rather than stifling it.
In the early days, we had this fresh new thing that *nobody* really knew anything about. You learnt ALL the technology because the chances are you would have to beg and borrow from different bits of it to achieve what you wanted. It was all just a massive creative opportunity. Hell, Flash was really just an animation package, until praystation et al came along and redefined it as having the potential to be a rich technology platform.
Right now, we’re facing the same landscape and people really need to embrace the potential of ALL creative technologies as tools of expression and communication, instead of bitching about their particular expertise and it’s goddamn percentage.
Agreed. Both technologies has it’s benefits and drawbacks. It should be left to developers and users what technology to use. I never hear flash developers complaining about traditional web developers, but how come that it is not the true vice versa.
Hi Nick, sadly I also see hate coming from the Flash side. You only need to see some of these comments! But I’m also heartened by the fact that there are indeed many open-minded individuals on both sides. Seb
Well said, Andrew. I’m also surprised that there are still such deep emotions around this topic. But I’m also heartened to see many commenters like you that seem to be happy to learn as much as they can! So it’s all good
Seb
A few years back I decided to stop doing any ‘flash websites’ type work after I concluded that there was a pretty direct correlation with egotistical clients who are a nightmare to work with.
These were the (major corp) companies who actually said things like: “Yeah – accessibility? We don’t need to worry about that – this is a business to business site. … oh, uh, yeah, of course disabled people have jobs – just not in our industry, it’s all about image, yeah?”
Anyway – my point is that great flash developers aren’t using flash to build websites and haven’t been for a long time. We’re building tools that cannot be built in HTML/JS. These days I’m mostly building AIR products, and it’s the ideal platform for our clients.
We’re also building games that are far, far beyond the scope of what can be done in HTML/JS.
If you think flash == ‘flash website’ then you’re miles behind, and doing the flash community a disservice by assuming we’d disagree. Personally I’m no more likely to use flash to build a website than you are to use Comic Sans ‘because it’s friendly’.
The argument is hollow because it speaks to the past. There are still Web Devs out there who use tables, or blink tags, but they don’t represent the intelligent dev community any more than people who build crappy flash websites represent the flash community.
The most obvious output of this argument is a realisation that the flash-haters have their heads so far up their .jsses that they haven’t noticed how much the platform has shifted over the last few years.
Hi Stray, some interesting points there, thank you. I’m glad we’re seeing fewer full Flash sites, like I said, the suitability of Flash for games is without question. My reason for pointing out these misuses of Flash is to better understand the wider web devs attitude to Flash. Once we know where their preconceptions come from we can persuade them otherwise. And if we can kick-ass in JS they’re even more likely to listen to us! Seb
Well said! Each platform we have today will find it’s best suited space in the web industry. People should embrace the new ones, experiment, have fun, then draw your own conclusion to what you think and understand behind it. Not jump on the bandwagon and choose a side. There shouldn’t even be sides, I put it like this: People that ‘bad-mouth’ Flash, doesn’t understand Flash – simple as that. Unfortunately there are a lot of bad content made in Flash on the web, no-one can deny that. Looking forward everyone should strive to make the web a better place for all, using whatever technology suits the scenario best.
Thanks for the great article.
Thanks Matan
(I will caveat this comment by saying I currently work for Adobe though I have been involved with the Flash/Flex/AS community for a while prior to joining. The views though are my own and not Adobe’s).
Here’s what I don’t get about your post. I don’t find it attacking Flash developers and the tone is fine. However, given that Flash developers have lately been under constant attack from the wider web community (and pretty unfairly as many comments point out), I wonder how necessary this post really was. A Flash developer would have to be living in a cave not to have heard much of this already.
My question though is, how much time did you spend educating people at this conference about the reality of the Flash community? On pointing out that very few sites are built as the one shown by Tim Van Damme. Noting that there are plenty of example of horrible HTML/JS sites out there so picking and choosing your samples in such a manner is at best disingenuous. Showing all the amazing projects built by really amazing and talented Flash/AS developers that don’t fall into the cliches the Flash-hating community like to dwell on.
The point to me is, while there is nothing “wrong” with your sentiment, your energies might be better spent on helping to clarify the many misconceptions the attendees at this conference had or were led into by such speakers. My sense is, given the constant barrage on sites like Techcrunch and elsewhere, that the Flash community really didn’t need another reminder.
Hi Brian, thanks for your comment! As to whether this post was necessary, that’s a great question! I’m very pleased to see here that many Flash developers who are branching out, so perhaps this post isn’t for them. But it is clearly a sensitive subject, and I’m hoping that by talking about it, people won’t be so scared of learning new things.
As to whether I spend time educating people at conferences about Flash – of course I do! I’ve been arguing more of the case for JS in these discussions and that’s because most people here are on the Flash side. But when an early commenter said he didn’t see the point of Flash, I defended it. By understanding as much as I can about JS I can intelligently argue the case for Flash when it’s genuinely the best solution. Like I said, I don’t fit in in either community.
I hope that this blog post is nothing like the kind of horrible ignorant Flash-bashing that happens at Techcrunch. If you feel the Flash community is so sensitive that they can’t handle a reasonable, informed and intelligent discussion of the benefits of JavaScript, then you’re massively underestimating them!
cheers Seb
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[UPDATE 3]
TL;DR? I summarised all the comments in a separate post : Flash and HTML – the aftermath’s aftermath
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